At the weekend, Infigen Energy hosted its second annual Run With The Wind event at the Woodlawn wind farm. This year’s fun run around the 23 wind turbines near Bungendore, New South Wales attracted 600 participants–including the Liberal Member for Hume, Angus Taylor.
Angus Taylor’s participation in the event is somewhat of a surprise given his track record of bagging wind energy.
Taylor is the poster child of the clandestine anti-wind farm site Stop These Things. The site’s anonymous bloggers laud Taylor for his wind bashing. They describe the member for Hume this way:
Angus “the Enforcer” Taylor has just slammed his pro-wind power opponents to pick up the seat of Hume in NSW. Angus takes up where the “faultless former Member for Hume”, Alby Schultz left off.
The last time Taylor appeared at a wind energy related event, it was the lacklustre anti-wind farm rally in Canberra (June, 2013). Despite all the rhetoric of a huge turnout sending a powerful message to federal politicians, the anti-wind farm campaign barely mustered one hundred people.
In contrast, six times as many people turned out to Run With the Wind — a clear indication as to where the public stands on wind energy.
Yes 2 Renewables commends Angus Taylor for participating in the event. Run with the Wind allows the public to get up close to these gentle giants and familiarise themselves with the renewable energy technology. While it’s too early to tell, we hope Taylor’s participation is a sign that he has turned over a new leaf on wind energy.
One thing that’s we can be certain about… Taylor’s fun run would have taken the wind out of the sails of Stop These Things.
TAKE ACTION:
Do you think it’s great that Angus Taylor participated in Run with the Wind? Well, why don’t you let him know… Give the member for Hume a pat on the back:
yes2renewables.org 
Sorry was the run just for wind farm supporters ?. I thought it was a community event my apologies I wouldn’t have come if I had known that.Its a bit shallow to think someone would change their opinion because of a fun run that was I thought for the community…….There is a old saying keep your friends close and your enimes even closer.
“One thing that’s we can be certain about… Taylor’s fun run would have taken the wind out of the sails of Stop These Things.”
You have got to be kidding!
TCW.
TCW – your back! Why won’t you answer any of my questions? It’s not like they are too difficult or anything. But I can understand why you are in awe of your champion, young Angus Taylor. He dared to confront the beast that makes people ill and (insert other excuses) and apparently survived the event unscathed. Bet you wish you had his autograph?
At least you get the chance to post your opinions, something the cowards at Stop These Things won’t allow. So much for balance and fairness, things you and others keep whining about and claim you aren’t receiving. Try not to choke on your hypocrisy.
I thought I had answered your questions, BD, you obviously haven’t been back to check.
You can rest easy BD, I won’t be choking on anything.
TCW.
TCW, I didn’t see your reply to my question about how many turbines will be near you if the project goes ahead, what direction would be from your place? That would help me understand if you are likely to experience any short period of time when you get shadows from the blades?
Apologies for that slide excursion Mr admin 🙂
TCW, do you think Angus Taylor is an honest broker when it comes to discussions on energy matters?
I do wonder if Angus’s participation suggests any change of heart. I suppose it does show that he is willing to face-up to the reality of wind farms, rather than criticizing them from a distance. A step in the right direction.
I would be able to see approximately 30 turbines, from the north east, to the south east of our property.
I have no reason to believe Angus Taylor is not an honest broker, when it comes to discussions on energy matters. He is a member of the Abbott Government, who was given a mandate by the Australian people, to get rid of the carbon tax and stop the waste of the previous Government, which includes pouring billions of dollars into an inefficient renewable energy industry, particularly wind power, which can not survive in it’s own right and all of the money goes out of this country to overseas companies.
If and when an efficient and economical storage system for electricity becomes available, then there will be a place for wind power, but the turbines must be put in marginal areas away from people.
Meanwhile manufacturers in Australia are closing down because of the additional costs imposed by these so called green initiatives and the average consumers are paying through the nose for their power. It is totally unsustainable and if you were running your own business, you should be able to work that out without too much trouble.
TCW.
TCW, I wonder if you have ever had any correspondence with Angus Taylor? I have and he is definitely not credible or honest when it comes to renewable energy. He says he believes in it but then raises all sorts of excuses to delay implementing anything meaningful.
Meanwhile you condemn wind energy saying it’s not efficient (when it is), and because there are no economical storage systems. While the lack of large batteries is a problem at the moment, it in no way minimises the usefulness of wind energy as South Australia demonstrates on a daily basis.
Why don’t you say roads, gas lines and electricity lines should go into marginal areas for the same reasons? You don’t seem to recognise your double standards.
As for mandates, they are just convenient political excuses for the government of the day to justify doing whatever they bloody well like. Legally it means nothing. Whoever has the numbers can implement their legislation.
Why is the carbon tax bad? It has helped reduce CO2 emissions. Meanwhile your beloved Tony Abbott is going to spend a fortune on a useless exercise that all but two economists believe will not work and will cost far more in the long term. If pouring billions of dollars down the drain upset you so much, I’m amazed that you have swallowed the Abbot line.
Your continued denial in regards to wind energy says a lot about your failure to accept reality. If you stopped reading the garbage on your preferred denialist websites and read any number of reports from industry, or took notice of the almost daily reports of new wind energy projects starting up around the world, you would see that business, banks and electricity distributors think very highly of wind energy and believe it has a bright future – and more importantly, they are backing it up by implementing it.
While it is said that manufacturers are closing down, again you display your hypocrisy. There is a wind tower manufacturer finding it hard to get contracts in Victoria because the state government has effectively stopped further development of wind energy in the state. The company was doing well while wind energy was being encouraged. Meanwhile the same state government has provided another $50 million (subsidy) to a carbon capture and storage pilot plant that has been in the works for a number of years and has yet to produce anything useful within the next five years. You think that’s good economic sense?
The additional Electricity costs you mentioned have been explained in a number of reports and the cost of renewables is not the main cause. It has only been a minor imposition in relation to other costs. Why aren’t you complaining about the gold plating of the grid by energy distributors or unnecessary government regulation – the real causes? They are spending money where it is not needed. Your bias against wind energy prevents you from recognising the facts behind the real cause of rising energy costs.
http://www.afr.com/p/opinion/the_real_cause_of_energy_price_rises_KlobhuPowM426JEwp3rx2L
http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/the-truth-about-rising-power-prices-75112
“TCW, I wonder if you have ever had any correspondence with Angus Taylor? I have and he is definitely not credible or honest when it comes to renewable energy. He says he believes in it but then raises all sorts of excuses to delay implementing anything meaningful.”
We all believe in renewable energy, but not the ad hoc system we have at the moment.
“Meanwhile you condemn wind energy saying it’s not efficient (when it is), and because there are no economical storage systems. While the lack of large batteries is a problem at the moment, it in no way minimises the usefulness of wind energy as South Australia demonstrates on a daily basis.”
That is just not true. It is a grid operators nightmare. Coal fired power stations have to be operating on standby and when the wind drops out they come on line, as well as gas fired turbines which are hugely expensive to run, to make up the short fall. What you say, makes no sense at all.
“Why don’t you say roads, gas lines and electricity lines should go into marginal areas for the same reasons? You don’t seem to recognise your double standards.”
That is not even an argument.
“As for mandates, they are just convenient political excuses for the government of the day to justify doing whatever they bloody well like. Legally it means nothing. Whoever has the numbers can implement their legislation.”
Exactly, they have the numbers and the majority voted to get rid of the carbon tax.
“Why is the carbon tax bad? It has helped reduce CO2 emissions. Meanwhile your beloved Tony Abbott is going to spend a fortune on a useless exercise that all but two economists believe will not work and will cost far more in the long term. If pouring billions of dollars down the drain upset you so much, I’m amazed that you have swallowed the Abbot line.”
Why is Co2 so bad, it is having very little if any effect on Global Warming and I don’t know about things in your area, but all of the crops, plants and trees, seem to be doing very well here, on the slightly higher Co2 levels, where is the problem?
“Your continued denial in regards to wind energy says a lot about your failure to accept reality. If you stopped reading the garbage on your preferred denialist websites and read any number of reports from industry, or took notice of the almost daily reports of new wind energy projects starting up around the world, you would see that business, banks and electricity distributors think very highly of wind energy and believe it has a bright future – and more importantly, they are backing it up by implementing it.”
Of course, while compliant Governments keep paying developers huge subsidies for them, it is a license to print money. Let’s see how many go ahead when the REC and the RET are scaled back. Why do you think the Mafia is involved in wind farms?
“While it is said that manufacturers are closing down, again you display your hypocrisy. There is a wind tower manufacturer finding it hard to get contracts in Victoria because the state government has effectively stopped further development of wind energy in the state. The company was doing well while wind energy was being encouraged. Meanwhile the same state government has provided another $50 million (subsidy) to a carbon capture and storage pilot plant that has been in the works for a number of years and has yet to produce anything useful within the next five years. You think that’s good economic sense?”
That is just a commercial reality, when you are in business, you have to keep your options open and not put all your eggs in one basket.
“The additional Electricity costs you mentioned have been explained in a number of reports and the cost of renewables is not the main cause. It has only been a minor imposition in relation to other costs. Why aren’t you complaining about the gold plating of the grid by energy distributors or unnecessary government regulation – the real causes? They are spending money where it is not needed. Your bias against wind energy prevents you from recognising the facts behind the real cause of rising energy costs.”
You fail to mention that the capacity of the grid also has to be nearly doubled to handle the peaks of power, when the wind does actually blow and it is already full.
If what you say is true, why aren’t the Greens screaming blue murder to the Government and the regulators, instead of pushing for more renewable energy in the form of wind power, which will only compound the problem. The power prices only went up when the renewable energy came on line.
TCW.
No, you don’t all “believe” in renewable energy. Some of you are extremely selective and cherry pick what suits you. You even ignore evidence that clearly demonstrates your justifications are unreasonable.
Angus Taylor is exactly the same. He pretends to accept the science supporting concerns about climate change but then invokes all sorts of excuses for delaying any meaningful action and even suggests that wind energy isn’t developed enough but then goes on to say we should be using wave energy or geothermal which is nowhere near as established as wind energy.
Like you he cherry picks and ignores evidence that doesn’t suit.
Your claims about the grid have been shown to be wrong time and again, even the market operator shows it can run quite happily with a high percentage of renewables in the market. Again, South Australia proves the point. Why do you choose to ignore reality?
If wind energy destabilises the grid, explain the increasing amount of wind energy being used in South Australia? The evidence just does not support you.
If you really believe CO2 has little effect on global warming, you are definitely in denial and ignorant of the science.
It’s a strange world that you live in where anything you disagree with is just conveniently ignored. Do you really think your denial of established evidence will make something go away?
And again, why are subsidies bad only when wind energy is a possible beneficiary but subsidies going to polluting fossil fuel companies is okay? That’s another one of your double standards.
The mafia are opportunists, your comment is asinine. What’s your point?
So commercial realities are okay when a company struggles because governments pick favourites despite those same Conservative governments arguing that the market should decide? Yet another double standard.
You really would do yourself a big favour if you got your information from credible sources rather than biased crappy sites like stop these things and the Waubra Foundation BS. The stuff you are saying just makes you look silly and in denial. I’m sure you mean well but your comments are just a really sad reflection of people who choose to be ignorant because it suits your prejudices.
You really need to accept the fact that wind energy, solar and other renewables will take over fossil fuel generation as time goes on and that more wind farms are inevitable. The science always eventually wins out – you should read some history.
“No, you don’t all “believe” in renewable energy. Some of you are extremely selective and cherry pick what suits you. You even ignore evidence that clearly demonstrates your justifications are unreasonable.”
That is a matter of opinion.
“Angus Taylor is exactly the same. He pretends to accept the science supporting concerns about climate change but then invokes all sorts of excuses for delaying any meaningful action and even suggests that wind energy isn’t developed enough but then goes on to say we should be using wave energy or geothermal which is nowhere near as established as wind energy.
Like you he cherry picks and ignores evidence that doesn’t suit.”
He’s right, wind energy isn’t developed enough, it is totally unreliable, expensive and inefficient and can not operate without Government subsidies. Call it ‘cherry picking’ if you want, but that is exactly how it is.
“Your claims about the grid have been shown to be wrong time and again, even the market operator shows it can run quite happily with a high percentage of renewables in the market. Again, South Australia proves the point. Why do you choose to ignore reality?”
As long as there are coal fired power stations to back up the short fall when the wind stops blowing, as well as gas turbines that cost an absolute fortune to run. Who is ignoring reality?
“If wind energy destabilises the grid, explain the increasing amount of wind energy being used in South Australia? The evidence just does not support you.”
It is not being used in South Australia, the majority of it is exported to Victoria, when the wind blows, that is. Besides, the energy retailers are required to use a certain percentage of renewable energy, not by choice.
“If you really believe CO2 has little effect on global warming, you are definitely in denial and ignorant of the science.”
That is only your opinion, there is a growing consensus around the world that Co2 is not actually having an affect on Global Warming, in fact there has been very little if any Global Warming over the last several years.
“It’s a strange world that you live in where anything you disagree with is just conveniently ignored. Do you really think your denial of established evidence will make something go away?”
You might think my world is strange, not that you would really know, but I am perfectly happy with it. Once again, you call it established evidence, there are many other eminent people from around the world, who would disagree with you.
“And again, why are subsidies bad only when wind energy is a possible beneficiary but subsidies going to polluting fossil fuel companies is okay? That’s another one of your double standards.”
Because the wind industry is a scam, it doesn’t work. The fossil fuel power stations are producing base load power, wind never will.
“The mafia are opportunists, your comment is asinine. What’s your point?”
They might be opportunists, but they also recognise a scam when they see one.
“So commercial realities are okay when a company struggles because governments pick favourites despite those same Conservative governments arguing that the market should decide? Yet another double standard.”
That unfortunately is a fact of of life, I have no control over that.
“You really would do yourself a big favour if you got your information from credible sources rather than biased crappy sites like stop these things and the Waubra Foundation BS. The stuff you are saying just makes you look silly and in denial. I’m sure you mean well but your comments are just a really sad reflection of people who choose to be ignorant because it suits your prejudices.”
All I can say to that, is that it is a matter of opinion, you have yours, I have mine, but I can assure you, that there seems to be more and more people thinking very much the same way I do, to the point where people who follow your line of thinking are in the minority, in the rest of the world, anyway, maybe not in Gippsland.
“You really need to accept the fact that wind energy, solar and other renewables will take over fossil fuel generation as time goes on and that more wind farms are inevitable. The science always eventually wins out – you should read some history.”
Anyone who believes that, still believes in the tooth fairy, it will never happen and for it to happen, you are going to have to come up with a lot better science, than you have so far. I’m not sure what reading history has to do with it, but it certainly won’t help you produce base load power.
TCW.
Well you are welcome to your imaginary world TCW but don’t be surprised when reality finally imposes itself on your brain. You are living in denial.
The most telling thing though is that you are whipping yourself into a lather about wind farms even though you don’t live near any, you ignore information and advice from those of us who do live near them and you prefer to regurgitate BS from a few people with interests in competing industries or who have some weird aversion to wind energy because of ignorance on the subject.
It says a lot about your inability to think critically and how easily lent you are.
Anyway thanks for stating your point of view. Cheers.
You are welcome, BD, anytime.
TCW.
TCW, how many of you post under that pseudonym? Reading back through your comments here and elsewhere, it sounds like different people are posting. Do any of you live near wind farms? Have any of you seen a turbine up close? Do all of you live next to or in the footprint of the proposed wind farm on the peninsula?
“TCW, how many of you post under that pseudonym? Reading back through your comments here and elsewhere, it sounds like different people are posting.”
That depends which day it is.
“Do any of you live near wind farms?”
No and we have no intention to, either.
“Have any of you seen a turbine up close?”
Yes.
“Do all of you live next to or in the footprint of the proposed wind farm on the peninsula?”
Yes.
TCW.
Do your properties adjoin each other or do you have likely turbine hosts scattered among you? Will the turbines face your properties from the same direction and at what distance will they be from your property boundary? How many of you are “TCW”?
“Do your properties adjoin each other or do you have likely turbine hosts scattered among you?”
Some adjoin, some are surrounded by hosts.
“Will the turbines face your properties from the same direction…..”
No, different properties will face the turbines in different directions, some properties would have them on three sides.
“…..what distance will they be from your property boundary?”
The turbines would be within 2 kilometres of our boundary.
“How many of you are “TCW”?”
Now that would be giving away trade secrets, BD.
As I have explained to you before, TCW was set up to counteract the crap and abuse we were receiving from Dave Clarke. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, as we are, but we get more than a little annoyed, when people like Dave Clarke tell us we have to have a 199 turbine wind farm in our back yard, supposedly for everyone else’s benefit. Then for him to call us liars, NIMBY’s, unethical, climate change deniers, all of which is still on his blog, he should not be surprised when he received the backlash that he did. The least he could do, is remove the Heartland Farmers page from his blog and apologise, but we know that will never happen, because he is not that sort of person.
When he complains about a Telstra communications tower being built in the town not far from where he lives, then twelve months later complains to the local paper, that his Internet service is intermittent, then has the audacity to call us NIMBY’s, this very much explains the type of person he is and if he continues to harass us, we will respond.
TCW.
I don’t understand why you are afraid to publish your real names. Nameless comments carry little or no weight whereas somebody prepared to put their name to their comments conveys more credibility and even respect.
Whichever one of you made claims denying the effectiveness of wind energy, misrepresenting comments about bird fatalities, property values and climate change are certainly in denial of the available evidence.
And if you are so offended by critical comments, why aren’t demanding those behind Stop These Things (for example) operate by the same principles? You seemed quite happy to join in with them when they were criticising me and posting laughably inaccurate claims on the net. You cannot genuinely complain about the comments of others when you condone those actions from your friends and people on your side.
I can only judge Dave by my direct correspondence with him and as far as I’m concerned, he has provided evidence to back up everything he has told me, as I have done with him. You on the other hand make claims but provide no credible evidence. Regurgitating idiocy from fools like Sarah Laurie who is only intent on getting her name in the papers while she denies establish facts and does exactly the opposite of what she claims, namely, helping the people of Waubra, further makes me wonder about your motives.
While I do think you intend to be sincere, I also think you are allowing yourselves to be used, or, are not being very objective. I don’t understand why you are winding yourself up about wind turbines being nearby (assuming the project goes ahead in the first place) when millions of other people around the world live with them quite happily and have done so for decades in many cases?
My experience with local opponents makes me think you are driven by jealousy, misinformation or have conflicting vested interests which has led you to believe or promote nonsense. I see the arguments against wind turbines as just as vacuous and ridiculous as people who argue against smart meters, seatbelts, vaccinations, fluoride or any other scientifically accepted practice.
I accept that some people don’t like the look of them but that’s an entirely separate matter. Most of us do not like the look of something. For me its tattoos – but I don’t let their existence drive me to post ridiculous claims on the Internet under a pseudonym.
So it up to you. If you want to continue to make unproven claims as a nameless entity, you really shouldn’t expect people to take you very seriously. The same thing applies if you use dubious information from clearly biased sources while ignoring objective information such as that from the SA EPA which has further reinforced the evidence that infrasound from wind turbines is harmless. If you cannot accept clear, objective evidence like this, you should not expect people to respect your point of view?
I hope you understand the quandary you have placed yourself in. I’m happy to continue the discussion but you need to realise I do not accept or agree with your behaviour or claims. The only thing that I respect is testable evidence and people who have the courage of their convictions and are prepared to put their real names to their comments. Over to you.
A lot of rhetoric there, BD, not much substance.
If you and Dave Clarke want to criticise people and put your names to it, that is your prerogative, this is the Internet, there is no requirement for us to put names to our comments, it is done collectively under TCW. I might remind you, all we have done is oppose the Ceres Wind Turbine Project and in doing so copped a heap of abuse from Dave Clarke, you and others from the pro wind lobby. We are not interested in converting the rest of the world, but at the same time, we are not going to allow the rest of the world to tell us, what we can and can not do in our own back yard. We are not offended by critical comments, but if others choose to criticise us, they can expect to get criticised in return.
You have your opinions on why we are opposing Ceres, I am not going to try to change them, but most of the reasons you have mentioned, could not be further from the truth. I have told you before, the Developers came in and treated the whole Community with contempt, this alone was enough to make the Community very angry and oppose Ceres, before any of the other issues were taken into consideration. They have divided the Community and this division will never be repaired.
There are many people from around the world who are living quite happily alongside wind turbines, and there are many others who are not and they have a right to be heard, not ridiculed by people like Dave Clarke. We also have a right to make sure these issues have been solved before turbines are built and in our minds, they have not been solved.
I can assure you we are in no quandary, BD, we tell it how we see it and people can form their own opinions.
We will never agree BD, only time will tell, but at the moment, wind power has done nothing to convince us that it has any future in this country, in it’s present form. All it is doing is fleecing taxpayers, to prop up a fraudulent industry and has not provided any of the benefits it was designed to do, like reduce Co2 emissions, but it has created a lot of problems for some people who are unfortunate enough to have them built in their back yard.
Of, course, I know your opinion of STT, but this article pretty much sums up the usefulness, or should I say, the uselessness of the wind industry.
http://stopthesethings.com/2013/12/06/illusions-not-visions/
TCW.
I have come to accept that inconvenient facts are simply ignored by those behind TCW, just as you demonstrate no regard for honesty such as your silly claims about David Clarke. I notice you didn’t provide any evidence to support your claims that he has insulted you or treated you with contempt. Feel free to provide links and quotes if you can. I doubt you will because Dave sticks with the facts and leaves name-calling to others like yourself.
You have provided no evidence to suggest there are more than just a couple of you complaining about the Ceres project. Having dealt with the local version of the guardians prior to the wind farms here going ahead, I know opponents like to claim there are many of them when in fact they are just a handful at most. Unless you can provide evidence to prove there are many of you, I’ll assume it’s just a few of you making a noise.
I also doubt your claims about the developers. More likely, TCW realised they would miss out on having turbines and are envious of those who will directly benefit. Some people worship money that way. Claiming that project proponents would deliberately go in and upset a community is just childish, particularly a large project like that. You forget, I have talked with project developers in this area, first-hand and I know others from other regions so please try and spare me the confected justifications.
In fact there are only a few (comparatively) around the world who have any issues with wind farms. In almost every case, they have chosen to believe fiction from project opponents with vested interests in other industries and have swallowed the propaganda hook, line and sinker, in much the same way you have done. Are never understand why people like yourself choose to believe in conspiracy theories.
I have never denied some people don’t like the look of turbines but I do deny that turbines make people ill. Sure some people work themselves into a lather, much like you are doing, but that is your own handiwork, not the turbines. Proof if you like that your overactive imagination is the primary cause of your problems.
You are not really telling it like it is, you are telling it as you imagine. That is the truth of the matter.
It’s a pity you don’t demonstrate a little concern about people living in areas where coal seam gas developments are going ahead or coal mine expansions occur, people with genuine concerns. You might then receive some empathy in kind.
Of course you won’t be convinced about anything positive regarding wind energy, you have chosen to believe nonsense even when it is contradicted by fact. You practice denial about clean energy, climate change and the need to reduce CO2 emissions. It’s a pity you have let your personal prejudices interfere with reason.
And once again you ignore my comments when I highlight your double standards regarding abuse from STT and others. If you want people to respect your point of view, you should at least have the decency to practice what you preach.
Here you go TCW, more evidence that you are in denial and not being honest – even with yourself/yourselves…
https://yes2renewables.org/2013/12/09/dispatch-from-sa-wind-provides-41-demand-in-the-third-quarter/
Try and explain that away.
Can you and Dave Clarke, categorically say, that wind power provided 41% of South Australia’s power, consistently, every day, over the whole third quarter, if so, show me the evidence, BD?
You and Dave Clarke are also gloating over the new wind farms that have been approved around the country, tell me, who is going to finance their construction, investors are deserting wind farm investment as fast as they can? I don’t think I would be gloating, until they have been built and are producing power, BD.
As for your previous comments about our reasons for opposing Ceres, they are just ridiculous, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Regarding your comments about abuse, the abuse was coming from the pro wind lobby, including Dave Clarke and yourself, perhaps you should read back over some of your old posts, there are quite a few other posters to this site, who would verify that, BD. This was happening long before STT and ourselves became involved, then we were on the receiving end of it as well, because we dared to disagree with the pro wind lobby views. Ever hear of the saying, ‘Reap what you sow, BD?’
This discussion has gone about as far as it can go, BD, time will be the decider, I hope you will not be to dissapointed.
TCW.
“Can you and Dave Clarke blah blah blah…”
What a truly stupid question. I did not collect the data and I have no reason to disbelieve the comments made by Graeme Bethune. As always I take all claims provisionally, I don’t assume anything is holy writ. Why don’t you ask the good doctor how he collected his information instead of inventing more excuses by asking me?
Where is your evidence that investors are deserting wind energy investment? Your claims are not matched by the evidence easily available for anybody who really wants to know the facts. It’s tragic you are in so much denial of reality. Pretending something isn’t so doesn’t mean it’s true. You need to accept a few hard truths.
Unless you provide evidence to the contrary, I’m pretty certain your reasons for opposing the Ceres project are exactly as I described.
Again, provide evidence that Dave or anybody else associated with wind energy dishes out the sort of abuse that is standard fare for STT and other anti-wind spokesman?
I have no qualms about calling out somebody who tells blatant lies or distorts the truth by referring to them as idiots or fools or any other descriptor. Their comments justifiable criticism.
What you fail to understand is that you and other wind farm opponents are just making stuff up, distorting facts or cherry picking evidence to justify your position.
I’m happy to deal with reality, warts and all. That’s the difference.
So far you have made a lot of claims but have not provided a single piece of evidence to back up what you say. It’s a pity you can’t engage in an adult discussion without invoking distortions of fact and playing the persecution card like so many theists tend to do. You practice your opposition much like a religion which is probably why you resort to the same fatuous arguments.
As always I’ll be happy to swap news and views with you but if you want to take your bat and ball and go home, that’s your choice. I’m sure readers will form their own conclusions about your behaviour.
In any event, unless you provide evidence to support your claims, I see no reason to change my opinions about your activities and comments. Your opposition is pathetic when you don’t even live near a wind farm to know what it’s like when I do and know how benign they really are. It’s sad that you cannot see you have been so grossly conned/used – or maybe it’s the case that you want to be led by the nose?
Without the data, that statement is meaningless. There is no way that wind power provided 41% of demand, consistently, every day, for three months.
BD, you really are a sad little man, I bet you have arguments with yourself, when we don’t come on here to give you some entertainment.
I too enjoy a stimulating discussion, but when I keep hearing the same old rhetoric from the likes of you and Clarke, I tend to loose interest.
Have nice day, BD.
TCW.
Okay, so demonstrate why it is supposedly impossible to produce 41% of the demand?
Really, I’m not sad, I have plenty to keep me happy but I get bonus giggles from dealing with foolish people like yourselves. You provide endless examples of logical fallacies I can refer to when debating with theists – if nothing else, I have been able to help educate others with your sorry examples of wilful stupidity.
Don’t expect sympathy or respect from others when you fail to do the same thing yourself. You really should go back to STT and post crap there it’s more your kind of forum.
Lol!
Just as I thought, you have no answer, no evidence and no hope of being honest, even with yourself. I suppose you think somebody living next to a coal mine or having their property compulsorily acquired by government or a coal mine developer is also funny? At least a wind farm allows you to continue to farm and you can benefit from the additional income.
You’re sounding more and more like people who have had the opportunity to be involved with the project but wanted more, were refused and have done a dummy spit as a result.
And you can drop the pretence that you represent a large number of farmers and property owners.
“And you can drop the pretence that you represent a large number of farmers and property owners.”
Whatever you say, BD!
http://heartlandfarmers.com/join-us/
TCW.
Am I supposed to be impressed that you can provide a link showing some people supposedly opposed to a wind farm project? The Waubra Foundation use the same trick and there’s only eight of them.
I too have been to meetings where the majority of people were only after information and only a few actually opposed a wind farm project.
Given your constant denial of reality, distortions and fabrications, I’d need far more evidence than a picture of some people at a meeting. Nice try though…
Merry Christmas, BD.
TCW.
And the same to you TCW. Have a safe and happy New Year as well. Hopefully next year will see a more like-minded approach to wind energy and renewables in general.
TCW, Blair, good on you for putting down your swords. I wish you both a merry Christmas and happy New Year.